This is a transcription of Michael Savage's interview of Congressman Curt Weldon on The Savage Nation, a Radio Talk Show that was broadcast the evening of 10/19/2005. (Here is the mp3 file of this interview (3 MB). The sound quality of this file is certainly not the best though.)
Michael Savage: Joining us is Congressman Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania. Welcome to the program.
Rep. Curt Weldon: Michael, good to be with you again.
MS: Well what's going on? Why are we not hearing about Able Danger Congressman? What happened?
CW: Well it's really getting to the point of being outrageous. I teach part-time, I'm a college teacher and professor and I told the students when they were down in Washington, you know some of the things that are happening might happen in Belarus where there's a dictator, or they might happen in Iran where Ayatollah Khomeini silences people, or it could even happen in North Korea where Kim Jong Il has total control over what the people can hear and what they can know, but it cannot happen in America. And yet here it is happening-the complete silencing of a story that the American people absolutely need to understand. In the process of not allowing the story to be told, officials of the Defense Intelligence Agency are about to absolutely ruin the career of a decorated, 23 year, military intelligence officer. They are about to not only deny him his security clearance which they've already done, but his pay and his health care benefits for his two kids.This is what America has stooped to.
MS: Wait a minute, who is behind this though? Who's doing this?
CW: I'd have to point to the Deputy Director of the DIA. They are so hellbent on silencing this guy and not letting him talk to members of Congress nor to the American people that they're doing absolutely outrageously stupid things. Michael, I've asked for the Secretary of Defense to request a formal Inspector General investigation of what they're doing to Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer. In the most recent action which they've taken which is the stripping of his security clearance, thereby ending his career, they are about to move not just to do that but to suspend him without pay.
MS: But Sandy Berger's security clearance will be restored, isn't that correct?
CW: Absolutely.Sandy Berger, who stole from the National Archives, and who lied about it and then admitted it when he got caught, is going to have his security clearance put back into place.
MS: Congressman, but you're a Congressman in the United States House of Representatives, you're the one who's been pushing the hearings. What about Arlen Specter, what's he doing about all of this?
CW: Specter has held one hearing. Right now there's a stalemate. He wants to hold a second hearing, the Pentagon is refusing to allow the witnesses to appear in a public forum.
MS: Wait, you mean the Pentagon under Donald Rumsfeld now is blocking public disclosure and discussion about Able Danger?
CW: Absolutely. And I raised this question point blank to Donald Rumsfeld about a week ago when he was before my committee. I said to him, why are you blocking military intelligence officers from simply telling the truth? He said to me, Congressman, I'll look at it and I'll get back to you. I'm still waiting for an answer. But in the meanwhile they are destroying this individual which is absolutely outrageous. Michael, let me tell you how outrageous this is. When they came up with these trumped up charges, for a reason for removing his security clearance, they said that he stole pens. He stole pens. Well Michael, the truth is that when he was 15 years old, his father was working for the State Dept. overseas, and when went for his security clearance he admitted that when he was 15 years old he took some pens from the embassy to give to other students in his class.
MS: Oh my God, this does sound like something out of the Soviet Union. Well we're in very deep trouble if the Bush administration is behind this. What are they covering up Congressman?
CW: I don't know. The only thing I can figure, Michael, is that now is information that briefing occurred in January, February and March of 2001 of Able Danger information. There are probably bureaucrats in the upper levels of the Defense Intelligence Agency who don't want to be embarrassed that they did not take appropriate action.
MS: To prevent 9-11, let's put this in context. Able Danger was a unit set up inside the Pentagon to scope out potential enemies against the state. They apparently fingered Mohammad Atta a year before 9-11, they wanted his cell broken, they tried to pass the info on to the FBI, they were blocked from doing so by lawyers within the Pentagon. That's the full story. And yet we've heard nothing about it since you started this whole deal. Let me ask you something Congressman Weldon, aside from this program, have you been black-balled by the media?
CW: Well the mainstream media never wants to pub anything that they think is going to not be their story. Now some of the more aggressive media, Fox News, and I have to add the New York Times, they've been aggressive. UPI's running a story now.
MS: I know the New York Times ran some of that, that's when we had you on the show. That was a big deal. But have they stopped paying attention to what the Pentagon is trying to do to Lt. Col. Shaffer now?
CW: But they're not pushing it. I talked to Michael Isakoff today. He's interested.
MS: Oh, because anything that could embarrass the Bush administration, a spineless whimp like Isakoff would take up. That's terrible. I'm talking about more reputable sources than Isakoff. Have they all basically given you their backside?
CW: Well I tried to let what I think is the normal process work. And I tried to be civil about this because I'm a big supporter of the military. I've been Vice Chairman of the Armed Services Committee for 19 years. But as of today, Michael, I cannot take any more of this outrageous activity. I listened to the Sunday talk shows. Tim Russert had on F. Louis Freeh, the FBI director under Clinton. The first question, Louis Freeh responded with the answer that if he would have known the information that Able Danger had, then he and the FBI would have been able to stop the terrorists hijackings. Now that's Louis Freeh on national TV on Meet the Press this past Sunday, the FBI director. This is a serious story, a story that could allow us to have a process that could have stopped 3000 people from being slaughtered. This is not the Watergate coverup of a break in of a Democrat Party headquarters. This is the deaths of 3000 people, but the Pentagon is not allowing the American people to fully understand. It's outrageous. It's absolutely outrageous.
MS: You are a US Congressman, you aren't just a caller to a talk show. You are a representative of the United States of America. How can you get this treatment?
CW: Well, let me tell you, look, they tried to embarrass George Bush in the CIA right before his election, and they tried to embarrass Porter Goss nominated to head the CIA. The bureaucracy can do what it wants because they think they're untouchable. That's why I'm on your show because your listeners as they've done in the past are going to rise up with a fury that shakes this city by the neck and says we will not take this. This is not North Korea, this is not Belarus, this is America and we deserve to have the answers, plain and simple about what happened. What we don't need to have is career military officer's career destroyed because somebody in the Defense Intelligence Agency is embarrassed that they might have some information and they fell down on the job.
MS: This is unbelievable that you should make a comparison to certain branches of our government and tyrannies and dictatorships around the world. It's chilling frankly and it makes me about much bigger pictures congressman. Are you in any danger?
CW: Well, I'm not worried about that. I've passed the point of saying I will lay back and let this thing ride out. Today and yesterday I met with another source on Able Danger, a source with impeccable credentials. And when I say impeccable, impeccable. He was the leader on the Able Danger effort. He has not been interviewed by the 9-11 Commission, nor has he been interviewed by this administration or the Defense Dept. And he has told me that in spite of what we were told, that Able Danger data was destroyed. That there's a second set of information and data that's even more comprehensive than the one that was destroyed, that he thinks may still be available. He also told me, and this he'll say on the record, that this nonsense about destroying data because it was 90 days and had to be destroyed, was never followed, that in fact the lawyers in DOD allowed them to keep this data well beyond the 90 day period and that much of that data may still be intact. (inaudible) what the Defense Dept. said in a hearing before the (inaudible) committee just over one month ago.
MS: You as a US Congressman, Mr. Weldon, don't you have any authority over the Defense Dept.? I thought that we had a government run by civilians, not run by the military.
CW: You'd think that, but you know I had to write a book last year because I couldn't get the attention of the CIA on a source on Iran. It took me 2 1/2 years to write a book to finally get the intelligence to interact with a source which they're now doing over in Europe. The fact is that we have a bureaucracy, Michael that in some cases has out (inaudible) and believes that it's above the control of the American people and the elected officials who represent the American people. As much as I hate to admit this, that's what's happening here. It is outrageous, it is outrageous what's happening to Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer. And I told you that one of the things they charged him with was to remove the security clearance because he removed pens. Well, guess what happened, Michael? Over the weekend the Defense Intelligence Agency sent 7 boxes of material to (inaudible) Lt. Col. Shaffer. And in those boxes were $500 worth of federal property. But somebody in DIA stupidly sent it to Shaffer, which is fraud against the taxpayers. And even more important than that, and that included by the way, government pens. But even more than that, there were 6 pages of classified material that somebody inadvertently in DIA sent to Tony Shaffer's lawyer. This is classified information that they're saying that he's not able to handle and yet the agency sent it to Tony Shaffer. I have copies of all 6 pages.
MS: This is right out of the ex-Soviet Union. We are now living in the equivalent of the ex-Soviet Union where people could be defamed by a governmental agency and condemned to a gulag? That's what they're trying to do to Shaffer. They're sending him to the equivalent of the gulag archipelago, which is a man without a pension, is a man without a life. Especially a man who put 21 years of service in. Congressman Weldon, will you stay with us on the Savage Nation to take a couple of calls, or do you have to go?
CW: I will, I'll stay.
MS: Stay on, I'll be right back. This is shocking.
Commercial break.
MS: We have Curt Weldon, the real deal, a real representative of the people. He's very fired up. He's saying things I've never heard a Representative say, in a way I've never heard them say it. You know why, because the time is very short. We have a very small window of opportunity to save full disclosure on Able Danger. In case you don't know what Able Danger is, you'll find out on this show as time goes on. Let's go back to our guest, Congressman Curt Weldon. Welcome back. Congressman, you shook me up when you began by saying that this is not Belarus, this is not North Korea. Do you really mean that?
CW: I absolutely do. I've been been to Belarus, I've met with (inaudible), I took both delegations to North Korea. I went to Libya, I met with Qaddafi 3 times. I know what those nations are like. And I've argued with them to open up their countries and allow people to speak out and tell the truth. And here I am in my country, the country that I love, the youngest of 9 kids, a 19 year member of the Armed Services Committee, Vice Chairman. But now I've got a military officer, a 23 year veteran who's having his life destroyed because some bureaucrats in the Defense Intelligence Agency are going to be embarrassed and no one can tell the truth about what happened before 9-11. It's outrageous and it's despicable and it's unAmerican.
MS: Well Congressman, this should be fodder for the American left, but it also should worry the conservatives in this country who want freedom and truth. I would think that you'd have a large following on this issue. But apparently you're a man like Jeremiah there. You sound like you're screaming in the desert.
CW: No that's not true. Rush Limbaugh just did a national interview in his newsletter that went to 800,000 households, the New York Times has run front page stories on this. Fox News, they're not exactly the same ideological spectrum (inaudible). The UPI, AP, now it's time for the American people. The listeners of the Savage Nation to rise up and demand that this country get back to its basic roots and tenets. Where the military who wears the uniform swears to uphold God, country and defend this nation, and do it with honor and dignity. We have a responsibility to defend the military officer. Not to allow his career and life to be destroyed. Because people within the administration, within the Defense Intelligence Agency, do not want the truth to come out about what was happening that would embarrass them. And that's exactly what's going on right now.
MS: Well I understand that the minute you leave this show, you're going to go to the floor of the House and give a very similar speech. Can we watch that on C-Span?
CW: You can, I'll be on there for 1 hour, I will lay it out in detail. I will go through in detail what's happening. I will go through the request for an independent (break in recording). What we've been told publicly by the intelligence community of the Pentagon.
MS: Congressman Weldon, the question I have for you at this time, but I don't want to keep you from going to the floor of the House because I think this is a momentous story. I think it's a momentous moment in the story, and we have very little time. But, Arlen Specter worries me on this. He seemed rather sincere when he held the hearings, and I watched every minute of them. But is he part of the problem or part of the solution here.
CW: I think Senator Specter's part (break in transcript)
MS: it's possible in this country with the War on Terror. Am I hearing that we've lost our democracy during the War on Terror?
CW: Michael, we're hearing that programs like yours are what ignite the fires in the hearts of the people of this nation. The Savage Nation needs to ignite the outrage that all of us have over what's happening in our country. No one is above the law here. No agency bureaucrat should be able to snicker on the side and say, I can take care of this guy, I can destroy his career. I can make sure that he never speaks to the public or members of Congress. And that's what's happening. That's wrong, it's unacceptable. If the rest of the Savage Nation rise up and if they jam the switchboards of the capitol, if they jam the switchboards of their representatives, if they send their emails and letters to the Secretary of Defense demanding that we have a full explanation of the information Able Danger had. We'll get to the bottom of this. Democracy still works, but we've got to make it work against these people who do not want democracy to do what the founding fathers established when this country was born over 230 years ago.
MS: Well you're giving me the faith that perhaps talk radio, the Internet can still play a role in the wheels of democracy. You have a passion I have not heard equaled in the House of Representatives, and if this was not an issue of such grave importance, I wouldn't have asked you to come back over and over again. I think this coverup of Able Danger is far bigger than Watergate. I said that to you when you came on the show originally because in Watergate nobody died. In this coverup 3000 Americans died, it's also reshaped the entire course of American history. And the only way we can prevent another 9-11 is to make sure this kind of coverup never happens again. So the concluding question for you, Congressman Weldon is this, have the barriers between CIA and the FBI or the Defense Dept. and other spy agencies within such bureaucracies and the FBI-have those barriers now been removed?
CW: It's better than it was on September the 11th 01. We have made a lot of progress. We're still not there. But we've made progress. We need to fully understand what happened before 9-11, why we didn't take the appropriate action, what the roadblocks were and where that information is today. We could be using all of that data to further understand Al Qaeda. We need to know whether or not that's happening. But when you deny, when you pretend that it didn't happen, when you gag military officers for simply wanting to tell the truth, no one knows. It's all a big secret. It's like we're protecting someone or something. And that can't stand.
MS: Congressman, I don't want to keep you, I want you to save some of that fire for the official Congressional Record. I am so proud to have heard you on the Savage Nation. God bless you. You have millions of people behind you left right and center.
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